Title: Cost questions
Post by: Des on June 01, 2007, 12:16:09 AM
Hello everyone.......Was wondering if anyone knew how much a pre war Mercedes 170 cost in the 1930's in Germany, in Reichsmarks or other models at this same time?
thanks Des
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: helmut on June 01, 2007, 10:11:11 AM
Hi Des- I have a photo which was sent to me by Mercedes of a 1930's 200 lang which has a price tag in the window of DM5700. cheers Helmut
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: woliver on June 01, 2007, 10:50:22 AM
A 170v would probably be about 00-1200 US, but I don't know how that translates into RMs.
I have a 1935 british price list showing, in pounds sterling: Type 130= 375; Type 170= 410-680, depending on the model; Type 200- 425-720; Type 290= 650-1,060; Type 500K= 1,395-1,890. Again, I don't know how this converts to RMs.
Wally
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: curator on June 01, 2007, 01:09:44 PM
A Mark had been the currency of Germany since its original unification in 1871. Before that time, the different German states issued a variety of different currencies, though most were linked to the Vereinsthaler, a silver coin containing 16 2/3 grams of pure silver. Although the Mark was based on gold rather than silver, a fixed exchange rate between the Vereinsthaler and the Mark of 3 Mark = 1 Vereinsthaler was used for the conversion.
The first Mark, known as the Goldmark, was introduced in 1873. With the outbreak of the First World War, the Mark was taken off the gold standard. The currency thus became known as the Papiermark, especially as high inflation, then hyperinflation occurred and the currency became exclusively made up of paper money. The Papermark was replaced by the Rentenmark in late 1923 and the Reichsmark in 1924.
The Deutsche Mark was introduced on 21 June 1948 by the Western Allies (the USA, the United Kingdom and France). The old Reichsmark and Rentenmark were exchanged for the new currency at a rate of 1 Deutsche Mark = 1 Reichsmark for the essential currency such as wages, payment of rents etc, and 1 Deutsche Mark = 10 Reichsmark for the remainder in private non banks credit balance, with half frozen. Large amounts were exchanged for 10RM to 65 pfennigs. In addition, each person received a per capita allowance of 60 Deutsche Mark, the first of DM40 and the second DM20.[1]
The introduction of the new currency was intended to protect western Germany from a second wave of hyperinflation and to stop the rampant barter and black market trade (where American cigarettes acted as currency). The move angered the Soviet authorities, who regarded it as a threat. When the Deutsche Mark was introduced in West Berlin, the Soviets promptly cut off all road, rail and canal links between the three western zones and West Berlin. This led to the Berlin Blockade.
In the former GDR, the East German Mark (initially also called the Deutsche Mark) was introduced a few days afterwards in the form of Reichsmark and Rentenmark notes with adhesive stamps to stop the flooding in of Reichsmark and Rentenmark notes from the West. In July 1948, a completely new series of East German Mark notes was issued.
The Deutsche Mark was first issued by the Allied Military. Later in 1948, the Bank deutscher Länder took over issuance, followed, from 1960, by the Deutsche Bundesbank. It earned a reputation as a strong store of value at times when other national currencies succumbed to periods of inflation. It became a source of national pride and an anchor for the country's economic prosperity, particularly during the years of the Wirtschaftswunder in the 1950s. In the 1990s, opinion polls showed a majority of Germans opposed to the adoption of the euro; polls today show a significant number would prefer to return to the Mark.
The Deutsche Mark played an important role in re-unification. It was introduced as the official currency of East Germany in July 1990, replacing the East German Mark, in preparation for unification on October 3. Ostmark bank accounts were exchanged at a rate of 1:1 for the first 4000 Mark and 2:1 for larger amounts, rates which many economists have criticized as being too generous and a key cause of the subsequent economic problems in the new German states.
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: helmut on June 01, 2007, 02:27:38 PM
Quote from: helmut on June 01, 2007, 10:11:11 AM
Hi Des - I have a photo which was sent to me by Mercedes of a 1930's 200 lang which has a price tag in the window of DM5700.
cheers
Helmut
Sorry that should have been RM5700
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: Des on June 01, 2007, 06:23:59 PM
Thanks for the replies and information guys, very interesting
reason I asked was I picked up off ebay recently a 10,000 RM bond certificate issued in 1941, I was just curious if the owner hadn't bought the bond certificate if they would have had enough to buy a car,
I understand you had to be very rich to afford a car,
With petrol rationing and the Wehrmacht confiscating cars for the war effort, probably wouldn't have been much use anyway.
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: John Ellis on June 01, 2007, 08:55:02 PM
Werner Oswald in his book "Merecedes Benz Personenwagen Volume 1" lists the following prices for the pre-war 170V models:
170V - 4 door sedan RM 3850
170V - cabrio limo RM 3980
170V - cab A RM 5980
170V - cab B RM 4750
170V - roadster RM 5500
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: wenthur on June 01, 2007, 10:21:55 PM
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John,
I have been following this and wondering if that book has the prices for the "36 200 cab b. MIKE
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: John Ellis on June 01, 2007, 10:54:48 PM
Werner 1936 prices for the 200 lang types:
4 door sedan RM 6550
pullman sedan RM 6550
pullman landaulet RM 6900
tourenwagen RM 6950
Cab A RM 11500
Cab B RM 6990
Cab D RM 8200
On a Google search a 1936 US dollar was worth RM 2.48 so the 200 cab B would have been the equivalent of 18.
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: wenthur on June 01, 2007, 11:29:40 PM
John: I'm glad to have stumbled on the cab b, but darn if it couldn't have been an A, some of these finds are just plain luck, A friend of mine found Humbrey Bogarts Caddy that he had during the filming of the African Queen, He has restored it and uses it to carry around singers that come to Hanford to preform at His families restored Fox theater. You just never know what you will find in this old barns. there is a old house mover that has 40 years of Lincolns stored in old houses he has at his house junkyard. And I found all the part to build a fire chiefs truck, seat, giant headlights, water tank, and ladder rack with the old ladder. Tried to get the local fire dept. to build a Chiefs truck on a "29 Chevy 1 ton, but could not get them interested. Well have a good weekend, and thanks for the info on the prices. MIKE
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: Chuck Lamn on June 02, 2007, 09:01:44 PM
I have some prices very different than above. Quoted from the Automobile Quarterly third Qt of 1989 they ran an extensive article on the Milligan 170V Cab A.
The article by Ted West gives the following prices in 1936 when the 170V was introduced:
4door 2860RM or US684
Cab B 4750RM or US 1140
Cab A 5980RM or US 1435
The 4 door RM price differs substancially from Oswald's and the conversion rate is over 4 to 1 by that author.
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: Johan on June 03, 2007, 02:44:01 AM
I will check one of my german car magazines from 1938. In one of them there is list of data for german cars from Adler to Wanderer. it is interesting to see the difference in priced berween a 170V and a Maybach or a 500k.
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: John Ellis on June 03, 2007, 11:58:19 AM
Chuck, the price that you stated for the 4 door 170V is actually the price for the chassis (fahrgestell) only. As far as the conversion of RM to dollars, I found this site from the University of California Santa Barbara history department.
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/projects/currency.htm (
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/projects/currency.htm)
Y0u are correct that the early 30's the exhange rate was over 4:1, but in 1936 it was 2.48:1.
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: Johan on June 03, 2007, 04:14:44 PM
Acording to "Motor und Sport" number 17 1938.
The price for a "Innenlenker":
170V: 3750
170H: 4350
230 Pullman: 6725
260D Pullman: 7600
320n: 8950
320 Pullman: 9800
500 Pullman: 17500
540K: 22000
770: auf anfrage...
And some other interesting cars:
Maybach Zeppelin Pullman: 33800
Horch 951 Pullman: 17500
Opel P4: 1450
DKW Reichsklasse: 1795
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: Henry Magno on June 03, 2007, 09:40:30 PM
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Funny that Mel Milligan's 170 V should come up since I just saw his son Mark today at the Greenwich show. Mark co-owns the car with his brother in California. He said it is in a museum out there, mostly because his brother doesn't have enough garage space. We were both lamenting that it doesn't get driven much as a result. At some point his brother will trade it back to Mark for "his turn" and it will come back to the east coast. Mel was a great enthusiast for the 170 V and we became friends when he found out I had one. He was a regular at the "New England Vintage Meet" which I ran for a number of years. Sadly, Mel passed away fourteen years ago. He used to drive the car quite a bit.
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: Chuck Lamn on June 04, 2007, 05:15:27 PM
John--its amazing how much information that the web brings into our lives. My A/Q was written pre google, probably with information furnished by Milligan. The fact that Germany almost doubled the RM against the $ in a space of 6 or 7 years is a surprise. But the $ must have also declined with our economy of the thirties.
Henry-- as you know, the article is extensive with a lot of information about Milligan and his car. It's a fine tribute to a 170 enthuiasist.
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: wenthur on June 04, 2007, 06:42:21 PM
When I was stationed in Germany between 1971-1973, I first got there and the Mark was 4marks=.oo and I bought a "53 Mercedes 180 for 300 Marks of .00, When I left the Mark was as 2Marks to the .00. Couldn't have as much fun as when I got there. MIKE
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: Des on June 05, 2007, 03:59:14 AM
Quote from: wenthur on June 04, 2007, 06:42:21 PM
When I was stationed in Germany between 1971-1973, I first got there and the Mark was 4marks=.oo and I bought a "53 Mercedes 180 for 300 Marks of .00, When I left the Mark was as 2Marks to the .00. Couldn't have as much fun as when I got there. MIKE
If you don't mind me asking how much did you earn in a month back then in the army?
Just curious, putting it in perspective to the cost of the car you bought.
I imagine there would have been a lot of old VW's and 1940's around for sale?
thanks
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Title: Re: Cost questions
Post by: wenthur on June 05, 2007, 08:41:53 AM
Des, In 1970 we received .00 a month, Then at the beginning of 1971 the New Voluntary Army came into effect and our base pay jumped to around 0 a month. But as far as a lot of old car I didn't see many that were not owned by G.I.'s. The Germans have a very strict vehicle inspection, and any car with any rust, or big dent had to be taken off the roads. Army personnel had their own plates and inspections, much more lenient.
I did have a "47 bug with the oval window. I blow that up on the Autobahn, change the engine there at a rest stop, Traded 20 grams of hash for a new engine.
The 180 I owned had all plastic interior and was able to change it to wood from a junk yard, painted it competition orange from a spray can and did my first pinstripe job on that car. when the inspection plate got a pinhole in it, it too blow up and I rebuilt the engine, but never got the electrical hooked up b4 the army picked it up and as they were putting her in a truck with big crane, they drop her nose first from 20' and then as a deterrent to drinking, They then set her by the front gate with a tombstone Stating drinking and driving kill. They spay painted red paint in the windshield. and I got a name that was hard to live up to. But that was another life ago.. MIKE
