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Title: Re: Quite a striking looking car,
Post by: braveman170 on March 21, 2009, 11:52:16 AM
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I think that 170Sb/DS/S-V/S-D all had column shift when they left the factory.
Because of problems with the function several of these cars have been converted to floor shift.
The column shift is no good construction. I have worked with my 170Sb for 25 years and I am still not 100% satisfied with the function.
I understand why many cars are converted. It is the easiest way.....
If this car is a S-D it has the wrong type of rear bumper.
It has no chrome trim around the side windows. Then I think it is a S-D or a S-V. But perhaps the doors have been changed.
However the owner has used his own fantasy.
Lars
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Title: Re: Quite a striking looking car,
Post by: Henry Magno on March 21, 2009, 10:47:17 PM
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I've worked on a lot of column shifts, both frame cars and ponton, and usually they can be made to work fine. I will say that on the 170 Sb I restored, the column shift never worked that well, and I never had a chance to fully sort it out, even though all the relevant washers and bushings were replaced. When the car changed hands, I converted it to floor shift for the new owner (he just wanted it this way, he hadn't actually driven the car, so he had no opinion on how the shift was working). I think after I removed the column shift transmission cover, I concluded that there was a problem with the cover itself making it hard to shift.
Lars, what is the problem with your shift?
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Title: Re: Quite a striking looking car,
Post by: braveman170 on March 22, 2009, 03:13:26 AM
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Henry,
I have not replaced the bushings. They look OK but perhaps they are not.
Have you ever replaced the springs in the top of the tranny ?
In the engine bay there is one short linkage part with a spring inside. Have you ever replaced this spring?
From the beginning this short linkage did not move. But after some years it did. And then I understood that it was a spring inside it.
Now I have no big problems. But when I get the 1st gear working OK I sometimes have problem with the reverse gear.
In the beginning I had big problems when shifting from 3d gear down to 2d gear. But that is OK now.
I will try to replace the bushings this summer.
Last year I replaced the central aluminium housing at the firewall. There are many different ways (angles) to mount all the linkage parts. I have the description and the picture from the workshop manual.
Perhaps the biggest problem is that I am to lazy.....
When it works to 98% you keep on driving.
Lars
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Title: Re: Quite a striking looking car,
Post by: Henry Magno on March 22, 2009, 09:56:16 AM
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I have not replaced the springs in the cover. They rarely are a problem. I'd say the failure there would be in the ball bearings or damage on the rods. I suppose a spring could break and jam things up.
Here is how I approach these things and I'm sure you have covered almost all if not all of it.
First, the levers on the transmission should be in the correct position. Often they are not. The bearing body (the part on the steering column) should be in good condition. Sometimes the pin cast into the body is damaged, allowing the casting to rotate around the steering column tube.
The bushings (4) I meant are the ones on the transmission levers and the ones on the bearing body at the other end of the shift rods. Surprisingly, the original rubber and brass ones can be in good shape. Usually I replace them, anyway. The problem with the new nylon ones is that the center holes are pretty tight on the shift rods. If the angles are slightly off on the shift rods, they can easily have too much drag. This requires carefully bending the rods so the ends are running in both ends at 90 degrees. Of course the holes could be opened out a little also.
The other parts to be replaced are the bushing at the shift lever in the car, the obvious one. What are often overlooked are the rubber (now plastic) washers that locate the guide pin at the top of the long shift tube. The guide pin is the short, stepped pin that the shift tube rides over at the steering wheel end. These washers are under the chromed cap at top of the column. One goes under the "c" clip and one is placed over the clip and is held in place by the chrome cap. If you have worked on a ponton, they are positioned differently on these cars. If these washers have failed, the guide pin can move up and down, so whenever the shift lever is moved fore and aft, it has to take up this unwanted play before any action happens in the tube itself.
The next thing, (which you have done), is to set the positions of the levers at the bearing body, especial the "L" shaped one for the shift lever action (the up and down motion). If this is wrong, that lever can hit the firewall. In conjunction with this, the "C" shaped lever at the end of the rod is set to put the up and down travel of the shift lever in the right place.
Possibly the trickiest adjustment, is the selector lever action (fore, aft). Unlike the later ponton cars, these transmission covers don't have the reverse detent plunger (and reverse light switch) built in. It's on the bearing body. This action is adjusted at the forward lever toward the engine that has no splines, the one operating the shift rod to the top of the transmission. The way I do it is to put the transmission in first gear, loosen the clamp at the forward lever, and lightly pull the shift lever in the car up against the detent for reverse. Then a helper tightens the clamp on the lever at the bearing body. You should be able to shift into first and second by holding the lever up against the detent while you shift. Sometimes, due to play in the system, this adjustment takes a few tries to get right, the problem being that either you will have to pull too hard against the reverse detent or you will have to let the shift lever fall forward. Then you have to guess where the first/second shift gate is. I think this is why these column shifts get such a bad reputation.
OK, that's a quick overview. Lars, I'm sure you know this stuff, but maybe others are less familiar.
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Title: Re: Quite a striking looking car,
Post by: braveman170 on March 22, 2009, 12:35:22 PM
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Thanks Henry,
First I have to translate to Swedish and then to practical work.
Bushing at the shift lever in the car:
I don't think that I have two. I only have one that I have made my self I think.
I have to buy and replace.
Thanks for your advise.
Lars
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Title: Re: Quite a striking looking car,
Post by: Henry Magno on March 22, 2009, 03:26:20 PM
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Lars,
Take a look at p.377 Fig. G 15/11 in the 170 Workshop manual. The rubber washers are #6 (111 997 12 40 need two). The bushing on the lever is #10 (111 268 03 92) but the new nylon ones have a different profile from what is shown. On your problem with reverse, make sure you don't have too much clutch play, and that the clutch is fully releasing. It could be OK on the synchronized gears but if you have a little drag on the clutch, you might get a hard shift into reverse.
